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Variable phono input loading |
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Graham Slee
Admin Group Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16298 |
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I prefer to model a cartridge output pre-equalised.
A magnetic cartridge output is a rising response at +6dB per octave. I developed a cartridge model to do this... The voltage controlled voltage source (VCVS) provides a zero impedance signal source to build the cartridge model to. The input circuit of the VCVS provides the rising response. Probe 2 measures the rising response. The 570mH inductor, 660 Ohm resistor and 1pf interwinding capacitance model the Goldring 1042. The interwinding capacitance isn't quoted by Goldring but even so there will be some - I chose an arbitrary 1pf. The 75pf cap is the arm capacitance I use. The rest is the input load of the Genera. L2 models the input DC blocking cap inductance and values of 30nH (a typical good electrolytic) or thereabouts don't show until " much closer to the frequency of light" The 220pf cap we've been talking about is depicted in red. All values can be played with and the resulting charts are as follows... This one shows the response to 1 gig! The reason I do it is to see what the amp input sees. Most audio op-amps have a Gain Band Width (GBW) product of 4 - 10MHz and it's important to consider what's going in to their inputs in the form of circuit stimulus whether real or imaginary - the simulator sees them as real. The peaky response (up nearly 1.4dB from the curve at about 8kHz) is the 220pf load cap. The lesser one is 100pf. The red line is the rising response. You can probably see why I chose 220pf by examining the stimulus at 4-10MHz. When the interwinding capacitance of the cartridge is factored in, the curve which otherwise would be well down at 4-10MHz is kicking back up due to this other LC response. With 220pf it's 6dB down on the 100pf curve. This suggests the input slew rate is half of what it is with 100pf and although stating the obvious, it shows how these curves help indicate what's going on. If the input stimulus is trying to race its output it could muddy the soundstage. The trade-off being the slight treble peak. The audibility of the peak is going to vary with the listener's age and many other things. Reducing the load capacitance further than 100pf would only exacerbate the slew rate "hunting", plus the bottom end of the available polypropylene capacitor range is 100pf. We've already heard that the PS caps don't have the same sound. Going higher than 220pf just emphasizes the peak further. Therefore, from a capacitive standpoint it seems the choice is 100pf or 220pf. We could do a series parallel arrangement to obtain 150pf I guess, but just look at the additional "material" involved. Yes, I think it would be a case of splitting hairs. The only other place to go could be resistive loading. I'll take a look at that next. Edited by Graham Slee - 31 Aug 2010 at 12:39am |
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Fatmangolf
Moderator Group Joined: 23 Dec 2009 Location: Middlesbrough Status: Offline Points: 8998 |
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Graham, thank you for sharing that model and your explanation with us. It puts my Spice model to shame and has given new insight (to me at least) into the behaviour of the cartridge/preamp circuit.
Yes I ordered enough of the Evox PFR 100pF capacitors to try them in series for 50pF or series parallel for 150pF. I haven't tried either and the latter is quite a small proportionate change, giving combined capacitance of 250pF in the in the middle of the 200pF and 320pf options already available. It would be "Splitting hairs" indeed. And a squeeze to get the parts onto the PCB.
The other variable is the arm capacitance, C4 in Graham's model. There's a limit to how low this will go with available cables, practical TT to preamp distance and enough RF shielding. My internal arm and external leads measured at 105pF, lets say 100pF. +/- 10%. I like the internal Litz wire I fitted but changing the external lead I used may (!) get the arm capacitance down to 50 or 60pF with a short, low capacitance cable. I would prefer that to further reducing C2 inside the preamp. Usual warnings to all about voiding warranty, being competent to do the work, and the point that different cable compositions do sound different.
To be honest I am reluctant to rewire as I love the sound of my TT and cartridge at the moment. I would credit the Genera with the clear and engaging sound I am hearing. I tried another well regarded preamp which I have souped up with better parts and the Genera knocks it for six on every ball.
Back to topic, I would be very interested in the effect of resistive loading in this model. With another preamp I have tried lower loads i.e. resistor more than 50k, and found they sounded a bit thin and less clear at HF, the word "phasey" catches it. Has anyone else explored this?
Jon
Edited by Fatmangolf - 31 Aug 2010 at 8:43pm |
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Jon
Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
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Fatmangolf
Moderator Group Joined: 23 Dec 2009 Location: Middlesbrough Status: Offline Points: 8998 |
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A follow on to the Evox PFR "little gems" note above.
Whilst looking inside my Arcam Alpha 8SE earlier (which still sounds very good 10+ years on, BTW), I noted the component choices in the DAC module. Lots of Rubycons and a lot of little blue capacitors, yes they were Evox PFR!
It helps to explain my continuing use of the Alpha 8SE (when, ahem, I'm not listening even more keenly to my Rega and GSP Genera, of course) and suggests great hi-fi minds think (and ears hear) alike.
Edited by Fatmangolf - 09 Oct 2010 at 11:01pm |
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Jon
Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
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morris_minor
Moderator Group Joined: 27 Mar 2012 Location: Surrey Status: Offline Points: 6017 |
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Bit of a thread resurrection here!
I make no pretence of understanding the technicalities of cartridge loading, and I'm a strictly plug'n'play kind of person, so any kind of circuit component changes are definitely not on the cards. So my question is: seeing as how cartridge loading can change the sound, how can this be achieve simply? There is an additional complication as I have two Technics DD parallel trackers (SL7 and a hot-rodded SL-QL1). These take p-mount cartridges that just plug into the end of the tone arm, so there are no headshell leads (which is where, I guess, some changes could be made). I've nothing "wrong" with my vinyl sound, but I guess like most of us here, am always looking out for some incremental improvements, and this seems like an area to look at as I've read (dangerous! ) that no two cartridges need exactly the same loading. So I'm hoping for some enlightenment!
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Bob
Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
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tg [RIP]
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Location: Sydney Status: Offline Points: 1866 |
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This could be what you are looking for Bob - at least the "how to" part. Edited by tg - 08 Dec 2012 at 12:20pm |
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morris_minor
Moderator Group Joined: 27 Mar 2012 Location: Surrey Status: Offline Points: 6017 |
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Thanks tg! That's excellent .
I just need to work out what values to choose now. Oh, and buy a cheap soldering iron. SWMBO will have the fire extinguisher poised if she sees it smoking . .
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Bob
Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
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Fatmangolf
Moderator Group Joined: 23 Dec 2009 Location: Middlesbrough Status: Offline Points: 8998 |
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I had forgotten this thread but not Tony's helpful one about adjusting the loading with plugs. Thank you! Great examples of the range and depth of advice we share.
Jon
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Jon
Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
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